Episode 3: Marketing Tactics During the Pandemic with Adam Rossen

Despite being immersed in a pandemic, there are plenty of ways to use this time to market your law firm.

In this episode, Casey talks with Adam Rossen of the Rossen Law Firm talks about different marketing tactics they have been using while coping with the pandemic.

Adam Rossen, an award-winning trial attorney, approaches criminal defense with one goal in mind – results. Mr. Rossen is an AV® Preeminent Rated“, “AVVO perfect 10.0 rated”, “Top 100 DUI Attorney.” The National Association of Distinguished Counsel considers him among the nation’s top 1% of all attorneys. These peer, client, and legal association endorsed awards solidify Mr. Rossen as a knowledgeable, skilled, experienced and aggressive Broward County Criminal Defense Attorney.

Want to watch instead? Check out the video below!

Prefer to read? Read The Transcript Below

Interview Transcript

Casey Meraz:

Hi everybody. I’m Casey Meraz with the Legal Marketing Mastermind podcast where we dive into the weeds of practice with… There we go. It’s too many words. All right, one more time. Hi everyone. I’m Casey Meraz with the Legal Marketing Mastermind podcast where we dive into the weeds with practicing attorneys and subject matter experts to find what’s driving business for successful law firms. And today I’m thankful to be joined by Adam Rossen from the Rossen Law Firm. Adam, thank you for joining me today.

Adam Rossen:

Oh, thanks for having me, Casey. I’m so excited to be here. With everything that’s going on, it’s fun to talk to somebody and try something new, so I’m happy.

Casey Meraz:

Absolutely. Well, I’m glad that you could make it. And Adam, as I understand it, you run a criminal defense and DUI from in South Florida, is that right?

Adam Rossen:

Yes. Yes. So we’ve had the firm for 12 years. I was a prosecutor in Fort Lauderdale for two and then just in 2008, right before the last great economic collapse, I had this great idea of starting my own law firm. So we survived that and we’ve been, not just surviving but thriving and doing pretty well. And yeah, we’ve been down here.

Casey Meraz:

Well, that’s incredible and that’s awesome that you’re thriving in this. And so I think the burning question that most people would start off with is has the number of leads drop for your law firm? And what about the case intake? Have you been citing cases?

Adam Rossen:

So yes, of course. Our industry, I don’t know what the numbers are, 70, 80, 90% down. I mean, they’re down significantly. If my clients aren’t being social, if they’re not going to the bars, the clubs, if they’re not doing dumb things with alcohol and drugs out in public, and if you combine that with the police not doing proactive policing anymore, right? Having DUI checkpoints, actively looking for things, then yeah, the industry is down tremendously, but we’re just being as creative as we can and kind of pivoting a little bit with some of the marketing that we do. And I think when we come out of this, especially third quarter and fourth quarter, when we look at the number of arrests compared to third quarter and fourth quarter of 2019, I think it’s going to be really high.

Adam Rossen:

The question is are they going to have money to hire me? Hire a criminal defense lawyer as opposed to a court appointed or public defender.

Casey Meraz:

Yeah. No, and that’s a good point as far as the money side goes. But also I was just thinking about, do you think people are going to be crazier when they get back out? I mean.

Adam Rossen:

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. People already have cabin fever. We do a lot of marketing with therapists already and just from the talking to the therapist that I know, I mean, they’re seeing and hearing some crazy stuff, mental health, substance abuse, right? And when you confine people to their homes, it’s not a good situation. So yeah, we’re going to see a tremendous increase.

Casey Meraz:

Sure. So are you working and do you get referrals from therapists that have gone remote and are doing sessions like this over Zoom or?

Adam Rossen:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So a lot of the marketing that we do, or at least a portion of it is geared toward therapists. I’ve done a lot of continuing education credits for them, lectures, speaking engagements. We market them, we’re in their groups. So whether it’s them going remote and doing tele-health or whether them seeing people in person, we do get a good amount of therapists who their client has an issue and they say, “Hey, well we have the right firm to help you out.” So, yeah.

Casey Meraz:

Got it. Okay. And as you mentioned, things are maybe downright now, but looking good moving forward. In your area, have the courts adapted or are they open or are they in some sort of hard shut or?

Adam Rossen:

Right. So in South Florida, we’re used to this a little bit with hurricanes, but of course our chief judges, they’ll wait. We’ll have a hurricane that’s about to hit us Saturday morning and Friday afternoon. They’ll say, “All right, we’re going to close for a few days.” They wait until the last possible minute. Although for this, they’ve been a lot better. So we are closed through the entire month of May. They made small incremental closures. The first, I think it was two weeks through the month of March. Then they did it through most of April and then a few weeks ago, they just said, you know what? We’re shutting this down through the entire month of May.

Adam Rossen:

But we are holding essential court hearings over Zoom and over video conferencing and over the phone.

Casey Meraz:

Okay. Got it. Well, that’s good to hear. And then, so before all of this happened, so we’re talking four weeks ago, eight weeks ago, whatever, when you were marketing, what channels were bringing in the most leads for your firm? How were you getting business?

Adam Rossen:

Yeah, we were rocking and rolling actually. The beginning of the year is usually a very good time for us. We do a good combination of in-person, kind of old fashioned networking and marketing and then we do a lot online. We have a pretty good online presence. We have over 355 star reviews now. They’re spread out. They’re not all concentrated in one area, but we have a lot with AVO, we have a lot with Google, we have two offices and the offices are in different cities, so we get a good amount through Google My Business from each office and just SEO. We have a lot of targeted blog posts for very specific targeted areas and we’ll get people who find us online and read the blog post too.

Adam Rossen:

Yeah, we also do a lot of other stuff. We do a mailed monthly newsletter to our herd. We do some email marketing, social media. So we try to encompass everything.

Casey Meraz:

Sure. Okay. So it sounds like you’re really focused on SEO then as a big portion of that. Are you involved in the paid side of it all with any paid ads or just…

Adam Rossen:

Right. So that’s a great question. I’ve been able to grow the firm without ever doing that. I’m not opposed to it. It’s just, we haven’t needed it. So I don’t know. I’ve thought about it now because while people are backing away from it and canceling their spend, I think it could be a good time maybe especially for the domestic cases and I think there’s going to be a spike in child abuse cases, and really just kind of at-home crimes. So we were thinking if we can narrowly tailor it, have a lot of good negative keywords, maybe we can pick up some traction at a good price point. But in 12 years, I’ve never needed to do it. So that’s been pretty good.

Casey Meraz:

That’s awesome. That’s amazing. Yeah. And with Google Ads for example, they’re based on a demand platform. And so recently, those had really gone down and cost per clicks, but people were having more confidence it seems. So it seems like they’re coming back up now. So that would be interesting. And then since this has hit, have you pivoted or changed anything in your marketing, and what does that look like now?

Adam Rossen:

Right. So we’ve done a lot and like I said, well, really the whole year we’ve been slammed busy. And the first two weeks of March, it was going really well and we were still kind of, is this coming is this not? What’s going to happen? And then kind of all of a sudden like that, it’s just here and court’s closed. So maybe I had a half a day of kind of wallowing and being upset. And then I just brought everybody together and I said, “All right, all hands on deck.” We have three paralegals. Two of them, I said, “You’re now marketing assistants under our marketing manager and you’re having a new job and it is what it is, right? We’re all going to pitch in and figure some things out.” So I put the two girls on a very big project that we’ve had.

Adam Rossen:

We wanted to write out all of our different practice areas, have a different page for every single legal defense, probably a good six month project. And I just said, you know what? We’re going to do it now. What else do we have to do? Right?

Casey Meraz:

Yeah, exactly.

Adam Rossen:

Yeah. So we did that. We started that, we’re still doing it, of course. The first week, we did a bunch of gas calls, which I guess some people call them aka give a shit calls where we just called every single client that we have and said, “How are you? What can we do for you? Do you need anything?” And we gave a little update on the case and the court closures and stuff. And then we did the same with our former clients. And so has that directly translated into any case? Well, it translated into one lead, but we got tremendous feedback from our clients, our loyal clients. They loved it, that we’re just calling to check in and see how they’re doing. So that helped a lot.

Adam Rossen:

Just as again, great customer service and that’s why our criminal defense firm has 350 reviews online, which I think is pretty rare. So we did that. Oh, what else have we done? I wrote a list for you because I figured you’d ask.

Casey Meraz:

Yeah, no worries.

Adam Rossen:

We’ve done a really video series. So my partner, Manny, had a fantastic idea and he was like, “Adam…” Me, him and our marketing manager, Megan, we had a meeting and he’s like, “You’re hearing on CNN, on Fox News, all this different stuff and mostly it’s negative.” So he said, “I want to do something positive and I want to ask the people on the front lines.” So what we did is we’ve been having, once or twice a week, we’re putting out video interviews that we’re doing. Kind of like a podcast or like what we’re doing now, really. Of course we have big plans for later this year to have the fancy podcast and we just said, hey, 15 bucks a month with Zoom, this is our new podcast.

Casey Meraz:

Get it going, get it started. Yeah.

Adam Rossen:

Right, exactly. We don’t need the fancy backdrop or the fancy equipment, just minimum viable product. Get something out there. So he interviewed a COVID tent nurse down at one of the hospitals in Miami and that was really eye opening as far as what she’s seeing on the front lines. I interviewed an estate planning lawyer about some of the necessary paperwork that you need if you do get sick, right? Stuff like that, and he was able to send it out to his group of people and we promoted it with ours, with our email list and on social media. Just stuff like that. Trying to be a good community leader too.

Casey Meraz:

I love that. And you’ve touched on a lot of things kind of explaining what you’ve been doing that I want to follow up on. But first is that customer service side of things. I think that the fact that you have 350 reviews, that speaks to something itself, that is pretty rare for a law firm of your size, very rare, I would say. And that’s the opportunity that you’re really going to have to pivot right now or set yourself apart, I guess not pivot because you’re already doing it, but really being there for your clients. So I love that you called them and were there for them and you were doing something that wasn’t self-serving marketing because I feel like that’s going to pay dividends on your brand in years to come.

Casey Meraz:

And so you’re onto something there. And then also with the video interviews too, I feel like, especially interviewing a nurse that’s on the front line, did you do any promotion for that or get any exposure? I feel like there’s a lot of opportunity there again from a brand perspective that would interest people. So I’m just curious to hear how that went.

Adam Rossen:

Yeah. Well, we didn’t do any paid promotion with Facebook ads or anything like that. We just put it out there. We put out the full interview and then we had about, I’d say maybe five or seven short bite sized clips that we put out, and it got really good organic reach. We all shared it and a lot of people shared it, liked it, commented, not only on the big one but also on the little clips as well. And really with everybody that we’ve interviewed, we’ve done that and that’s what you said about branding. I really thought this was a time instead of the in-your-face me, me, me, hire me, hire me, it was good to just give information, show that we’re loyal community leaders, right? Where else do you get that from? And exactly, more of a branding play, which I don’t think is always the right move for lawyers, but I think in this situation it is.

Casey Meraz:

Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think it always depends as part of an overarching strategy. I’m an SEO guy at heart, so that’s what I’m always going to talk about. But I think that’s where we’re going to see the shift now in the coming years is where you’re doing really good SEO but you also have a really strong brand and people remember you and they have that choice now, and with information so easily available online, reviews like we were already talking about, this whole package I think is going to come together more and more over the years. And so again, I love what you’re doing with this community driven stuff. But I feel like, and I haven’t looked at your strategy at all to be fair, but you probably are already doing some of that with the website content that you’re talking about.

Casey Meraz:

I’m assuming you’re probably answering questions and providing that information. So in a way, you’re already probably doing this brand stuff from an SEO perspective, right?

Adam Rossen:

Right, right. Yeah, we are. We have a lot of FAQs on the site. There’s always things that I want to do better and I want to do more of and this time and where our firm is right now, there’s six of us. There’s two lawyers, three staff and our director of marketing and community relations. So I’m still doing a lot of the legal work. So it’s been a nice break where I can really focus more on the vision and really the overall marketing scheme and the planning because I really actually enjoyed that a lot, I’m sure you can tell. And my partner, Manny, myself and Megan can really brainstorm, have meetings and think about things. Now, it’s not always perfect. Sometimes I’ll just have something random come up and I’ll say, “Ooh, let’s do this. Ooh, let’s do that.” As opposed to not having it be part of the overall strategy.

Adam Rossen:

But yeah, it’s been good. Before we went remote, so I would say maybe second week of March, I said Megan, I said, “Let’s write a few articles about the coronavirus and just see what happens.” So we wrote pretty early on a blog about, can you be arrested for breaking quarantine? And that alone, I think in the last 30 days, we have 200… No, I’m sorry, 2000 entrances to our website from across the country, just on that one blog post. So it’s showing up first page of Google pretty much everywhere, all across the country. So pretty cool on that. And we did another one about, could you be arrested for intentional spread of the virus? If you purposely cough on somebody or spit on them or whatever, and that one hasn’t gotten… I mean, it’s probably about 800, I’d say, entrances to our website in the last 30 days from that alone, so.

Casey Meraz:

Well, no, that’s awesome. And you’re definitely on the right strategy there. You’re providing that value and that’s the real question that people are obviously typing. You’re getting the traffic for that and there’s got to be a lot of those right now. So it sounds like blogging has always been a part of your SEO strategy, so I’m assuming you have a lot of content geared around a lot of these topics as well.

Adam Rossen:

Yeah. Yeah, it has. And we’ve kind of ramped it up even more now. Now look, not everything has worked perfectly, right? We wrote one about domestic violence that I thought was really good and it just hasn’t gotten a lot of traction. Maybe in three weeks, we’ve gotten 20 entrances to the site from it. A little disappointing because I think domestic cases right now are on the rise with people at home. And of course there’s going to be some people fighting and squabbling, but that’s why you try and you just do it and test it and no one’s ever going to say, oh, you screwed up by doing that, right? If you don’t do it, that’s what’s going to be the problem. For example, I’m watching the NFL Draft Thursday night with along with I think a record, 15 million people or whatever it was, and they kept talking about Tom Brady going into the wrong house.

Adam Rossen:

I don’t know if you’ve heard the story, but Tom Brady went to pick up his playbook from his offensive coordinator’s house and he went to the house next door, and he just walked right in.

Casey Meraz:

Oh, yeah.

Adam Rossen:

The guy sitting in his kitchen and sees Tom Brady walking into his house. So while they’re talking about that, Thursday of the NFL Draft, I said, you know what? Screw it. Let me just write a blog post about it and so I did. Have we gotten much traction from it? No, but okay. I thought maybe we would, maybe we wouldn’t. So I wrote a little thing about, could Tom Brady be charged with burglary or with trespass?

Casey Meraz:

Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Adam Rossen:

I don’t know, why not, right?

Casey Meraz:

You have nothing to lose.

Adam Rossen:

Right. Yeah, yeah.

Casey Meraz:

Yeah. That’s something that would again, might have more of like a social lift in front of the right audience perhaps. But when you’re writing that blog, did you take the scenario and then provide your legal perspective, it sounds like?

Adam Rossen:

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We kind of laid it out. We talked about did, it fit the elements for burglary? Did it fit the elements for trespassing? So I thought we got some good keywords with that and then I kind of gave my legal analysis and how I would attack and defend the case and what I thought the ultimate outcome would be, and we posted on our social as well.

Casey Meraz:

Awesome.

Adam Rossen:

Most of the responses from that were either, I hate Brady or I love Brady.

Casey Meraz:

Yeah, I could see that. That’s very targeted and people are going to have their opinion already made up on that one. That’s funny. So let’s talk a little bit about communication then. When people are contacting your firm, well, I guess two questions. One is, which channel is getting you the most contacts? Live chat, I don’t know if you have that on your website. Calls, email forums, whatever. And then which one, if you track it, has the highest conversions for you?

Adam Rossen:

So right now, live chat last, I guess 30 to 45 days has been through the roof, but I think that’s also because just our traffic in general has gone up from those two main blog posts. In normal times, I would say just phone calls. We get a lot more phone calls than we do either context submissions or live chats. I think our phone calls still convert very well. But I think in normal times, the live chat does convert very well. I probably should, but I don’t have specific numbers to give you. But I know when we get the qualified live chats, those are pretty good as well.

Casey Meraz:

For sure. And do you do the live chat in-house or using the service that you recommend?

Adam Rossen:

So we use a service. We use Engage. I know there’s a bunch you can use. They’ve been good. Anytime we have any suggestion, they’ve fixed it, they’ve implemented it. One critique, I don’t think they’re very forward facing or very progressive where they’ve come to me and said, “Hey, Adam, let’s do this or here’s a way to make it better.” I have to think about things and then talk to them. They had one service that I said, “Hey, can we do this?” And they’re like, “Oh yeah, we’ve had that for six months.” I was like, “When were you going to tell me?” But other than that, they’ve been good and I’ve never had a problem with saying, “Hey, this isn’t a valid lead. Can you not charge me for that one?” So I think in two and a half years, they’ve never said no to me, which I appreciate.

Adam Rossen:

Now, we’re getting a lot of people from California and New Jersey and Tennessee saying, hey, I got this situation. Someone coughed on me. We got a live chat this morning from somebody from Georgia saying a police officer got within one foot or a few inches from their face and was yelling and screaming at them and kind of spitting up while they’re yelling and screaming. They wanted to know what they can do. So of course we shouldn’t have to pay for that because that’s not a real lead, and they’ve been great with that.

Casey Meraz:

Yeah. And all live chat services seem to have different models. Engage is pay per qualified lead. So it’s good that they’ve honored that. And yeah, I’ve had a lot of mixed bag experiences with a lot of different chat services. Engage has been around the block for a long time and there’s now some AI ones coming out that [inaudible 00:22:57] help craft that conversation a little bit better, which is interesting, like Gideon. So it’ll be interesting to see how that changes over the years. And do you do any texts communication or is that not something that you have available?

Adam Rossen:

So we text with our clients all the time, normally. As far as like a text to us, text instead of call. We don’t really do that. I’ve considered it in the past and the way it was explained to me as it was going to go right to cell and I didn’t want to have to deal with that. Now, maybe the technology’s a little different or maybe there’s new companies, but in my field, I think that’s actually very important. So now that you’re bringing it up, it’s something I’m going to want to look into.

Casey Meraz:

Yeah. I mean, I definitely see how it’d be a problem if it was going to your cell phone because [inaudible 00:23:47] the online contact, whether it’s a call or live chat or email, whatever, they may not just be contacting you. They might be jumping to another website. So speed of course is of the essence and that’s the benefit of a staff service as opposed to doing it in-house, but yeah. So I haven’t done too much with text yet, but I’m exploring it more and talking to other people about it [inaudible 00:24:07] interested to hear feedback there.

Adam Rossen:

Right. Yeah. No, that’s a great idea actually. I’m going to put that on the ever growing list.

Casey Meraz:

Awesome. And then let kind of just finish up talking a little bit about that ever growing list. Let’s say that you have an unlimited budget. What would you focus on right now and then maybe after this is over, to really just grow your firm?

Adam Rossen:

That’s a good question. Unlimited budget, I mean, I definitely would dip my toe into Google AdWords and some more paid traffic, maybe Facebook ads as well. I would probably hire another attorney to replace me from going to court and doing the day-to-day so I can then focus more on working on the business as instead of being in the business. So I’d say that would probably be next, is definitely fire me as attorney and promote me to more of CEO. I like working on the cases. I like being the chief strategist. I like meeting with clients. I like sharing in the wins. I do like some of the sales process as well, but I would say replace me from all of those and just allow me to really focus on how can we double or triple the business and really, really scale it.

Casey Meraz:

Got it. And then actually just another question came up because I was just thinking about video as you were talking earlier about the video interviews and stuff. Have you done any videos of client testimonials and things like that? Have you?

Adam Rossen:

So we did around maybe two or three years ago. We had a really nicely produced and it went pretty well. I’ve wanted to do a bunch more and I think I have about 15 on our site, which again I think it’s pretty rare to have 15 clients of criminal defense cases say, “Sure, Adam, I’ll go on video and tell the world what you did without even covering my face.” But we got releases and I called about 30 to 40 of them and I said, “Look, tell me no. If you are in the least bit uncomfortable, just tell me no.” And a bunch of them said, “Adam, I love you to death. I’ll write an online review, but I just don’t want my face there.” And I said, “Thank you.” Be honest. And then a bunch said, “You tell me when and where and I’ll be there.”

Adam Rossen:

So I’d like to do another round. It was fun. It was actually very humbling to sit there and listen to what people said, which was pretty cool. It’s kind of like a eulogy, but I got to be there.

Casey Meraz:

All right. Well, at least you got to see that.

Adam Rossen:

Right. Yeah, yeah.

Casey Meraz:

Yeah. There’s a lot of value to that and the social proof. And so I’m glad that you did that and took advantage of that because other people that are in that situation are really going to be able to relate to that. And it’s something that we’ve seen a lot of success on. So man, it looks like you have your hands in a lot of different things. You’re doing a lot. That’s super awesome and I love that you’re not just self-serving saying, hey, hire me, but instead providing not only the social proof that you’ve done great work for your clients and that they’re willing to share that, but also answering these questions. It’s really incredible and I feel like you’re on the right track. And then just last question, you said you have an in-house marketing manager. Are they responsible for all of this or are you working with multiple people kind of tying them together? And what have you found best for your firm and why?

Adam Rossen:

So Megan, she runs the marketing now and pretty much everything goes through her. I like to say it’s really her and I in tandem, I’ll come up with some different ideas and she has some amazing ideas, and sort of Manny. But she does most or if not all of the implementation for it, which has been great because that’s been one of the things that allowed me to scale just from myself and a legal assistant, two people in the firm to six. When you think about it, it’s a little scary saying, well, jeez, I’m going to hire somebody full time, right? Am I going to have enough work for them to do? But very quickly. And Megan’s not the first that we’ve had, the first one that we had, she was part time and it kind of allowed me to dip my toe into it and certain little projects here and there.

Adam Rossen:

But once we brought her on, my mind just fronts. We have a lot of things. I mean, that’s the way I chose to do it. Other people have had tremendous success with hiring different agencies. Of course I’d say the benefit of the agency is that they know what they’re doing and there’s really no training involved, whereas I had a work with Megan. We had to train, we had to do a lot of different things for her to… And she has a background in marketing, but she’s also a journalist and I wanted somebody who was an excellent writer with that background. And then she’s only been with me full time since December, so four or five months. But she’s fantastic and we’re just trying to take over the world.

Casey Meraz:

That’s awesome.

Adam Rossen:

Yeah. So for anybody, it’s just whatever fits them.

Casey Meraz:

For sure. Yeah. No, every situation is different and that’s just one of the things I always like to hear because on the same token, people have had really bad experiences hiring agencies and the same would be true for hiring in-house for some people. So I’m glad that you found somebody with that background, especially journalism since you’re interested in SEO, that’s a big part of what this is. And also not only on the writing, but the outreach side. So it sounds like you made a solid hire.

Adam Rossen:

Right. Right. You’re exactly right. Just because you bring somebody in, it could be a complete nightmare. It took us a little while to find the right one too, so.

Casey Meraz:

Sure. Awesome. Well, Adam, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate the time that you took to share all this insight with me and I wish you the best of success with your firm. Is there anything else you want to end with?

Adam Rossen:

Yeah. So I’ll tell you this, Casey. So for anybody that’s listening to this and just kind of not sure, spinning their wheels, they have an idea but they have trouble implementing it, obviously there’s a million different sayings, right? Nike, just do it, whatever. But a few weeks ago, I forget what I was doing or where I saw this, and you know how you can hear something 15, 20, 30, 40 times, and it doesn’t leave an impression in you until you hear it again in the right moment. And it was a quote from Teddy Roosevelt from over a hundred years ago. It’s one of his famous quotes, The Man in the Arena. And you can probably look it up or anybody can Google it. Actually went on Etsy and bought a print of it to put in my office.

Adam Rossen:

But it basically just says, people will criticize you, people will mock you, they’ll say anything. But the man in the arena is the one who’s actually doing the work and trying, and you’re going to fail. You’re going to fail and you’re going to fail. But as long as you’re in that arena fighting, battling, you’re going to be fine. You’re going to have success. So for anybody who’s out there and down and not sure what to do, just do something. Keep going, trying. There’s a lot of failures that I’ve had. I’m sure you’ve had, right? We’ve all had. Yeah. You just have to have the courage to say, I don’t care what anybody thinks, I’m just going to try it, and especially in the legal field.

Adam Rossen:

I feel like we’re ingrained in our head in the first day of law school that the answer’s no, right? I know from my law school the first day, they’re telling us all the ways that we won’t pass the bar or get disbarred instead of telling us all the ways to be a great lawyer or run a great business. So I would just say, don’t listen to them and just do it. Just have faith and trust in yourself and do it.

Casey Meraz:

That’s awesome advice, Adam. And this is coming from somebody who started their business basically in the last recession, it sounds like. No, that’s really-

Adam Rossen:

Little did I know. You fight and you claw and you survive, and then you grow.

Casey Meraz:

No, that’s awesome. And I can relate to that and I have plenty of failures consistently, but my little mantra, is always fail, but fail fast. So I don’t know, just something there to leave you with. But Adam, again, thank you so much for all of your insight and your expertise. I appreciate you joining us today and I look forward to talking to you again on our podcast.

Adam Rossen:

Absolutely, have me anytime. I can talk about anything.

Casey Meraz:

All right. Will do. Thanks, Adam.

Adam Rossen:

Oh, my pleasure.

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