Profitable Delegation: Boost Profits and Reduce Workload with Dan Warburton

Dan Warburton specializes in enabling law firm owners to dramatically increase their profits while reducing their workload, and he has an extraordinary track record for doing so.

From working with Dan, a law firm partner, one of his US clients, took his firm from being valued at $3.5 million to over $8.5 million in less than 12 months. A UK client of his increased her firm’s revenue by over 400% in 6 months, and another went from billing £13K to over £80K per month in less than a year. These are just a snapshot of the results his clients achieve, but not only this; they all gained something else in common: they each became able to work less than half the hours per week than they did before and transform their lifestyles by gaining lots of free time to focus on what really matters to them whether this be more business development or time with their family.

Warburton does this by showing his clients how to profitably delegate away their workload and empower their teams to handle larger work volumes than ever. This then enables the law firm partners to transition from being technicians in their business to someone who predominantly owns their business and creates time to solve all the inefficiencies in their businesses that they previously had to neglect due to heavy workloads.

Dan is now a highly sought-after law firm growth consultant who has been invited to speak in small boardroom meetings and to audiences of over 4000 attendees around the world, including Singapore, Malaysia, India, Vietnam, the USA, and the UK.

Over the last 15 years, Dan has worked closely with over 1,000 ambitious individuals, and his website now has over 80 testimonials from clients who say they achieved extraordinary results.

Company URL:

www.danwarburton.com

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Interview Transcript

Dan Warburton
Transcript


Casey:

Hi, welcome to the Lawyer Mastermind podcast. I’m Casey Meraz, and today I’m thrilled to have Dan Warburton with us. Dan is a specialist in helping law firm owners increase their profits while reducing their workload. He’s created the law firm owners club to share insights that made these transformations possible. Thanks for joining me today, Dan. It’s great to have you here. 

Dan:

It’s really great to be here. 

Casey:

Awesome. Well, so today we’re going to dive into a critical topic for law firm owners and that’s profitable delegation and delegation. For me anyway, it’s been a real big key to my success, but it’s also been a lesson hard learned and what I’m still always learning in my experience, many law firm owners are used to doing things themselves. It has to be done their way, for example. So why is delegation so crucial for increasing profitability and reducing workload? 

Dan:

Well, fundamentally it’s not. Delegating is a trap that most law firm owners find themselves in, and it’s simply because all the way through becoming qualified as a lawyer to then being an associate and then being a partner, they’re never taught how to delegate away their workload. It’s very much as a lawyer, you go to law school to learn this skill to then apply this skill of law, but never do you ever think what happens when I end up with so many clients and I’m too busy to do the work myself, and then I need to employ other team members, which many law firm owners do. But then even when they employ lots of team members, they still leave themselves exhausted trying to do a lot of the billing work themselves. And fundamentally what’s missing is a simple mindset. Instead of thinking, how am I going to fit this in? How am I going to do this all? How can I possibly do all this To thinking, who can do this for me? Who can I ask to do this for me? Or who can I consider starting to train up to taking this over from me? That’s the mindset shift that needs to happen first. I find 

Casey: 

That makes sense. I can think of a mental trap that I put myself into it that I, at least in the past, used to all the time, which was maybe I am the only one that can do it a certain way, or maybe I’m going to do it better. I’m the only one that can do it. So I’m talking myself out of it. Have you noticed anything similar? 

Dan:

Yeah, absolutely. And it’s also right to think nobody can do this as well as me because it’s probably true. Nobody can do your legal work as well as you can. However, if you look at this simple mass, let’s say you are billing as the law firm owner or partner, $500 an hour, you work that one hour, you’ll bring in $500 in that one hour, you can’t do anything else. You can only work. 

Whereas if you have, let’s say 10 associates each being billed out a half that rate, say 250 an hour, there’s 2,500 being billed by your firm in that one hour, even after their wages, you’re still taking home, or should I say the firm is still able to bring in over $2,100 for that one hour. And as a law firm owner, you haven’t had to work that hour. So, it’s simple math. Do you either work at $500 an hour and limit the profitability of your firm and then have to work even harder than you are already just to increase your profits or do you delegate it away to a team of 10 and then spend your time managing and leading them effectively to increase the amount of hours they can bill and then per hour be taken home for the firm to be earning not $500 now, 2,100 for that one hour and not have to work that one hour? 

Casey:

That’s just math. I mean that makes sense. That’s perfect. And it’s funny because I think a lot of people just get caught up in that and they’re not really thinking about that outcome that you just mentioned, and I think that was a good example. And do you have personal examples where a delegation may have led to a significant win for one of your clients? 

Dan:

Yeah, I mean, what comes to mind is Carlos, he was leading a team of nine people. He was exhausted, burnt out, working over a hundred hours a week. 

Casey:

Oh gosh, 

Dan:

Okay. It was completely crazy. And he was also receiving 250 text messages a day from his team wanting to know, where’s this, how do I get this, how do I do that? Where’s this file? What do I do with this client? And so when we looked at it, he’d had this thing where he wanted to build a great culture in his firm, so he didn’t want to stress anybody out or have anybody feel like they’re micromanaged. So they would do some of the work, but they would never complete it or finish it properly, and he’d have to then take it on and then stay late into the night to finish everybody’s work properly before submitting it to the client. And also because he just answered everybody’s questions and queries, he just became relied upon for always answering more questions. So he built a firm that totally relied on him to keep operating, but once he’d learned how to effectively delegate away his workload, which we can get more into how you do in this podcast episode, he reduced the number of text messages from 250 a day to about 10 a day in just two weeks. 

Casey:

That’s crazy. Wow. 

Dan:
So through learning how to create one-on-one time with each individual requesting he’s not contacted outside of those and they’re not advising, but leading then resulted in him only receiving so fewer text messages, but also what happened was he was able to effectively hold his team members to account or to increase their billing hours. And the real turning point was that he then went and employed somebody that could directly take over the billing work that he was doing. And I’ve noticed this is the turning point for law firm owners when they learn to delegate effectively, is that they actually focus on putting in place someone and the procedures to have someone actually take over the heaviest work that they do from the clients that they’ve had for many years. And there’s a whole way that you do that whilst maintaining your brand and your name and your reputation with those dear clients of yours. But after six months, him and his partner, they’d grown the team from a team of nine to 12 in six months, so just four more 

Casey:

Impressive. 

Dan:

And between him and the other partner, they made an extra $707,000 clear profit to divide between the two. But the bit that I love was that Carlos reduced work hours from middle round about a 100 to under 50 per week. 

Casey:

He really got his life back. 

Dan:

That’s right for me, that’s still a lot. And he says, no, no, but I don’t want to stop doing the billing work. I enjoy it. I said, okay, that’s fine, but you really want to keep going with this because you’re going to just keep limiting the profits that you could produce for your F. He’s chosen to still do some billing work, but it just shows the radical transformation that learning how to profitably delegate away workload as a law firm owner has on their lives and their business and everything. This is why I’m focused on this. It’s fantastic what it makes possible for law firm owners. 

Casey:

Well, that’s incredible and I think that’s no secret, and attorneys are used to long work hours. Do you think some of that is cultural when they start their own firm or branch off into their own that they’re just built to put in all of these hours and then they kind of never escape from that? Is that something that you see pretty often? Yeah, 

Dan:

A lot of the legal sector is still archaic. It’s still are the days of kings and queens and Henry VIII and all of that, and it’s evolved very slowly compared to other sectors and with it has grown this ethic of work damn damn hard to make it as a partner. And unless you are absolutely killing yourself in the brink of nervous breakdown, then you are not serious about becoming a partner and there’s that whole ethos and psychology to it and that just carries on generation to generation and they never stop to question the profitability or how much more profitable their firm could be. Instead they just see a pile of work that needs doing and clients are demanding, they throw themselves at it, they do a load and then afterwards what are they left with? A big pile of work they still need to throw themselves at and nothing changes day in, day out. And then if you look at the legal sector, it’s specifically known for being very high in mergers and acquisitions, and it’s because most law firm owners never get to the point where they’ve learned to effectively delegate away their workload. Like any business owner knows, the hardest business to sell is the business that’s still relied upon by its owners to operate. 

Casey:

Exactly, yeah. 

Dan:

It’s like if I want to buy your business and I say, okay, so how much do you want for your business? And you say, I want $5 million. I say, okay, great. So can I step in and just start operating it and you are going to leave and you say to me, oh no, I can’t leave. It still needs to operate with me. In that case, we need to work out some kind of buyout arrangement and I need you here for at least five years and I need to work with you to delegate this away. And let’s say you are in your mid fifties or early sixties, you’re already exhausted, burnt out and tired, and now you’re going to go through some earnout scheme that in the end has you just received some equal and then gradually declining income than what you are getting now with all your stress then you never get to actually cash out for all your years that you’ve spent in building a firm. Exactly, and this is happening so much in the legal sector all because law firm owners don’t know how to delegate their workload 

Casey:

Away. That makes a lot of sense and I think you hit the nail on the head there. I have a friend that kind of fits exactly in this box right now and he’s still trying to get to partner. I’m definitely going to have to share that with him. But outside of that too, I think a lot of attorneys, just like other business owners, they’re like a practitioner in a sense. Maybe they start their own business, they were good at law and then really they didn’t have the business classes in a lot of cases or the education of how to run a profitable business at the end of the day. So with that, I’m a firm owner right now. How do I start by identifying what tasks are right for location? How do I go from where I am now to start taking that first step? 

Dan:

So the very first thing is actually find out what all your heads of department or managers want to achieve in their position. So the very first thing to do is schedule a one-on-one call with each of them and get into conversation with them. Let’s say for instance, you’ve got Jack here, he’s their head of family law and he’s leading a team of 15, and you say to him, Jack, you’ve been at this firm for a while and I realize I’ve never really asked you what would you love to succeed at? What is it that keeps you here at this firm? What matters to you? And I want to find out because I want to make sure that this is a place that you absolutely love working in and are going to be here for the long run and we can all grow and succeed together. 

Once you find out what Jack wants, you’ll find out that maybe he wants a month off in summer to go traveling to India. Maybe he wants Fridays afternoon to spend time with his family or play golf. Maybe he wants a pay rise and actually become a partner. But unless you ask these kind of questions you never find out, then the next part is proposing to them that you become their mentor and rather than seeing them as your employee going forward, you say, Jack, I propose that I work with you to achieve all these things that matter to you, and what we can do is we can set some targets that you need to hit and a you hitting these targets, you’re going to be able to have Fridays afternoon off or have that month off in summer, or we can then review how much closer you are to becoming partner at the end of a year. 

How does that sound? Now they’re going to love that because then they’ve finally got somebody in their lives that cares about them that’s listening to them and that’s guiding them to excel in their position. Then what you do is you schedule a weekly one-on-one call with Jack and with each head of department, and I know what the listeners are thinking right now, oh my god, there’s going to be a lot of one-on-one calls I need to handle. However, what happens is in those one-on-one calls, you get clear as to the targets that they need to hit or that they need to manage their teams to fulfill and hit, and then what you do is week by week you ask them, how’s it going? Have you done this? Have you done that? And then you start making clear requests. So this is the neck second stage. Once you’ve got that regular one-on-one weekly call, learn how to make clear requests, request your team members of what you want them to do and agree on a timeframe. 

If you don’t agree on a timeframe, it’s not a request. So you need to have what you want doing in a timeframe and their agreement on both what needs to be done and the timeframe. Then write it down on some live file, like a Google sheet or something, and then each week you dial in and you bring it up. Did you do this? Did you do that? Did you do this? But the things they didn’t do, acknowledge them for their effort. This is the third tip, constant acknowledgement for their effort and what they’re doing right. What that does is it guides them to do more of what you want them to do and then you make a request. Look, Jack, unless necessary, don’t contact me outside of these one-on-one sessions. If we find we don’t get everything you need covered, then we can even look at scheduling a second call or extending these. 

But for now, unless necessary, if you need to because workflow’s going to stop, then contact me. But unless necessary, don’t contact me outside of these one-on-ones. Then what happens is when you do that you cause people to have to start thinking for themselves instead of relying on you for the answers. So then they start to become problem solvers. As they become problem solvers, they start to take more and more of the weight off your shoulders, so then they’re able to start running the business without you more and more, but then they’ve still got that one-on-one time with you, that undivided one-on-one time to ensure that they succeed at what matters to them and the target that makes you most profitable whilst reducing your workload. This is the foundational part of it and how it works. 

Casey:

Wow, you touched on so many different things that like other pitfalls that I see in other firms, and I think one of the more common ones that I’ve seen, that I’ve experienced myself is treating people the right way and then instead of just looking at them as, oh, they’re my employee, we’re paying them. I really just love the approach that you just gave. There’s got to be so many good things that come from that. 

Dan:

Yeah, A lot of law firm owners say to me, oh, but it’s so painful having these calls and I have to repeat myself three times, and yes, it is painful and it is difficult, but if you don’t do that, then what’s your life going to look like the next year, 2, 5, 10, nothing is going to change. Whereas my clients say they’re amazed at just those weekly one-on-one calls in guiding somebody exactly how to do something, how to use a system, how to save files, how to do whatever it is that they’re struggling with, and guiding them step by step, step-by-step within only four to six weeks. They cannot believe the elevation in performance and how much more of an asset this individual becomes to their firm. And then after three months of doing this, they’re really clear in who’s going places with the firm and who’s starting to lag behind, so then they can see who they can start making requests of to take over their work. That takes up their time, or like my client, Carlos, goes out and employs an ideal senior member to start directly taking over more of their client work. 

Casey:

Okay. Well, that makes a lot of sense. I think that one of the things you really highlighted too is delegation isn’t just about handing off tasks and Oh, it’s done, right? 

Dan:

Yeah, completely not. It’s about making clear requests and then supporting them in a way that ensures that individual success in delivering what you want. That’s how you win at this. 

Casey:

Yeah. Okay. So from a practical standpoint too, you kind of just laid out a strategy and a framework for it, but is there a role that technology can play to help make any of this easier or specific tools or platforms that you found effective for attorneys? 

Dan:

Yeah, you need to have time recording software in place if you’re still with a billable hour, which I know most law firms are, but even if you are delivering work on a value-based pricing, you still need to know how long did it take for that individual to work on this to be able to complete the work for us to be able to deliver it to the client? Because you need to be able to track and see how profitable each employee is or isn’t. So you need to have really good time recording software, and there’s many out there where you can have as many as 20 tabs open and then you can go and click one, go and answer the email from that client, and then when you finish that, go and start another client’s work and then click another tab and it will stop the clock on that one and then start the clock on another tab for instance, and also document management, workflow management software, one where everybody can access it remotely at any time and making sure that people don’t save their documents on their desktop, but all save it actually underneath the client’s file and in that point of work, then that means that you’ve always got this clear trail of what work’s been done and in what order for what client should your firm ever be up for an audit and being checked out for legal reasons, technology plays a major part in it, but again, it’s like technology, business development, marketing, recruiting, advertising, all of this just doesn’t happen if the law firm owner is exhausted, tired, burnt out, stressed and trying to do a lot of billing work. 

And so the first thing is first scheduling those regular one-on-one calls and then using those effectively to start empowering and uplifting each team member. As you then delegate more and more of your workload, they need to prove themselves to you that you can delegate to them. You don’t just go against your feeling of, I can’t trust them. No, no, no, always honor that. If you can’t trust them, you can’t trust them. Don’t ever go against that, but create a structure in which you can make a clear request and say, all right, we’ll speak again next week. See how you’re getting on with that. Then the next week you can see have they done it properly? And if they haven’t have they at least made enough of a progress for me to see that if I keep investing in them, they’re going to keep rising and rising and rising in their value to my firm and in turn consistently gaining my trust to delegate higher and higher level responsibility. 

Another great thing to do is to actually review work before it’s released to the client. So if you’ve got somebody that can do work but you don’t trust, they can deliver it directly to the client, have them submit it to you, then go and highlight all the sections that need changing first, save that as a copy, then go back to your original finish editing all that, send that to the client. Then on the next one-on-one, say, Hey, Jack, I’ve got this file here, this piece of work that you completed, and I’ve highlighted some sections and I’d like us to go through it because I think that you can deliver even better work than you are already. And so what you do is you say, okay, so this second paragraph, you see, I highlighted it here, have a read of that and let me know why you think I’ve highlighted it. 

So you see, this is the other skill, don’t advise, don’t just give the answer. Then people rely on you, have them think for themselves. It’s more of a coaching dialogue and then hold that awkward silence and then at some point they’ll make suggestions. You can say, yeah, not bad. What else? What exactly you spelled their name wrong or Yes, right? Can you see how you’ve repeated yourself twice in that sentence? Okay, great, so now let’s delete that, change that. Now let’s look at the next section. And as you do that, it is slow and it does take time, but I guarantee you when they submit to you the next piece of work to review, those mistakes won’t be repeated. And then you do that with the mistakes there are there, and you keep doing this again and again and again. In the end, you end up with pieces of work that are flawless or certainly 90% to your standard that you trust can be delivered directly to the client. 

Now they can then start delivering that work directly to the client. But here’s the really fun part, you then request them to become the gatekeeper for work that gets released from 18 that’s underneath them. So then you’ve got somebody that knows how to edit work to the standard that you want that’s tracking and checking work before it’s released to your clients and nothing passes him. Everything gets checked by him before it’s released onto your clients. You then sleep well at night knowing the standard of your work is of a high level that all your clients get and that you’ve got somebody that’s gained and earned your trust to be able to check and manage that. 

Casey:

Wow, that’s amazing. I love that process. You already touched on a lot of the common pitfalls that people might run into, which is some of the examples you gave there, but what are some mistakes that law firm owners make when they start delegating more? 

Dan:

It’s that they don’t. It’s like, yeah, I’m going to delegate. I’m going to do more of it. And then all of a sudden their client they’ve had for 15 years emails ’em again, got a load more work they want to do, they pick up the phone to them, Hey Charlie, how’s it going? Yeah, great. So you want this doing okay, I’ll get straight hang up. And they just get straight back into it doing it again and again. And the reason is is because most law firm owners are scared about having a client of theirs be handled or be dealt with somebody else in the firm because it’s their dear client, it’s their dear relationship that they’re trying to protect because they see that it’s the backbone of the profits that they get to take home. And so again, if you don’t delegate away that workload from all your clients, your clients are just going to keep referring more people to you, not to other people in your team. 

So then you just end up with this constant of running snowball of work that just destroys your life going forwards. You never have any freedom. So I find the solution to this is they must make a commitment to start delegating this effectively. And the way to do it is first go and seek who in my firm can I think without too much more training, can I get up to speed to start taking over chunks of this work? That’s the first thing to start answering. And then if you can’t think of anybody directly in your firm that can start taking that on, the next thing is start going out there and recruiting. Contact your recruiters and say, I want somebody to start replacing directly me. Write down a list of all the job roles that you do and have you recruiters go out and find somebody to directly start replacing you. 

Then when you found that person, whether in the team or outside, what you do is you send a circular email to all of your clients and guys, we are now able to deliver a better service than we’ve ever been able to deliver to you before, and this has now become possible by us having colleagues dial in and work with me and you. So in the future, please use this link to schedule a call with me, which goes directly to my schedule where I’ve saved time so that I’m always available within 24 hours to take a call from you via Zoom. The client then needs to click that to schedule that. It then gets placed directly in your schedule, so then you don’t get haphazard calls just showing up in the middle of nowhere from your long lasting clients. But then what you do is you have your new colleague dial into Zoom with you. 

So you always have a three-way call with your clients, and at first your colleague does nothing. Don’t ask ’em to do anything. Just sit there. You just introduce them and I say, I’ve got Michael here to take notes and to make sure that we speed everything up and that we deliver to you this work better than ever. And to be honest, Michael is actually better at this stuff than me. So after our call, I’ll be asking him for advice. So let’s go forward. So let me check. So you need this doing, you need this doing, you need that, you need this. Fantastic, great. We’ll get this to you. You hang up the call. Then if the client tries calling you or contact you, you just send them an email saying, if you want to speak to me, please use this link to schedule it. Then they use that scheduling link. 

Then you have Michael dial in again, and then you keep doing this, and then about three, four calls in, you say to Michael, Michael, is there anything I’ve left out here or anything else you could suggest? And then because Michael is very proficient or has certainly good few years experience in your particular area of law, he’s able to say, yeah, I would also do this and I would add this. And at that point in front of the client, you say, Michael, that’s brilliant. I’m so pleased I’ve got you here. I would never have thought of that. And then again, when the client starts contacting you send them a link to schedule it through Zoom. Then you have Michael dial in as well. And then at this point you say, okay, Michael, could you run through this with the client and make sure that we’ve got this clear? 

Then you just sit back a little bit and you are just checking in and managing the relationship between them, making sure this is really smooth, that your client’s been with you for years, gets treated with the utmost respect and level of care that you’ve always delivered to them yourself. And then you might chip in and add some remarks. And then bit by bit you will notice Michael becoming really confident with the client, the client realizing, hang on a minute, Michael really does know his stuff. Michael is as good if not better than you. And you’ll notice it because a client will start asking Michael questions on how to deal something and not you. And at that point you’ve done it, you’ve transferred the confidence from the work being off your shoulders onto the shoulders of Michael, the next time a Zoom call gets booked, you say to the client, I’m so sorry I can’t make this call, but as you know Michael’s, this knows this back to front. If ever you are really, really stuck, then do book another call with me. And at that point, you’ve done it. You’ve managed to delegate away the work from a client that you’ve had from years to somebody else to start taking it over. And that is how you start delegating the work even from the clients that you’ve held the longest and had the trust with for the longest. 

Casey:

Wow, that is really good advice. I myself in that situation and the framework that you just provided and the tactics there was just incredible. So I appreciate that, letting everything loose. I know that basically anyway that’s listening to this, they’re going to be interested how they can take this next step with their law firm. My first question is going to be, is there that first step and then how do you help law firm owners reach this level? 

Dan:

However we’ve been being for many years, unless something shocking happens, we are going to keep being that same way. It’s that classic thing. A fat person sitting in front of the television eating chips, drinking beer, ordering takeout pizza, sitting there on their sofa watching the football, they’ll just keep doing that. It’s their enjoyment, it’s their life. It’s what they do and why should they change? It works for them. But one day when they look in the mirror and they’re shocked at how they look or they all of a sudden get a heavy chest pain and they have to call an ambulance and they get a health scare, usually it’s only then that somebody will go and change and do something different in their life. So what I would say is to anybody that’s listening to this that really wants to have a breakthrough in this, write down what your life looks like now and write down what your life will look like in the next five or 10 years and see if you can shock yourself into realizing that you must invest your time into upskilling your leadership and management. Because if you don’t get that shock, you will continue doing what you are doing and you will go the way that over 90% of other law firm owners do. And that’s ending up one day burnt out and exhausted, feeling tired, wanting a way out, but not being able to see a way out because your firm still relies on you to keep operating. 

Casey:

Yeah, wow, that makes a lot of sense. People, they need to take that change. They need to have that epiphany. And I really liked you said too, writing down kind where you want to be and then do that personally to kind of work backwards and build out my life and how I want to build that out. So that is really good advice. So Dan, how do you help law firm owners that want to take this next step? 

Dan:

I work closely one-on-one with each law firm owner because I know how absolutely exhausted, tired, and in demand they are. They’re being demanded everywhere. So I design programs that are specifically for the totally overwhelmed, exhausted law firm, partner owner. In fact, the more overwhelmed and exhausted they are, the more I enjoy the work I do with them because the faster they see results, believe it or not. And so I work closely one-on-one through video call and working out what is the very most effective action to take first that first week, and then they complete that one and they start to see actually that was quite good. Then we work out the next ones and bit by bit their hours or the hours they’re needed to keep the firm running starts coming down, down, down, down. Then that starts to free up more time. Then we start working out, right now you’ve got this extra hour, this extra bit of time here, what’s the next very most effective action? And then we implement that and so on and so on. Really the key is they become skilled at first guiding their managers to increase their billable targets or in being their word, and then their next stage is how do you manage and lead others to effectively manage and lead others? And then that’s the advanced level. But all of that, I take law firm owners through step-by-step. 

Casey:

Okay. Sounds like you have a lot of experience, a great process, and it’s way more comprehensive than at least what I was thinking of initially. So that’s incredible. I think that a lot of people will be able to relate to. And so if they want to find out more about your information, what’s the best way to get in contact with you? 

Dan:

Danwarburton.com. Simple as that. Just go to danwarburton.com and you’ll be offered there to join my law firm owners club. So every two weeks you get emailed an insight, something that is making a real difference in one of my clients’ lives and how we’re implementing it and how you can implement it. It’s designed for law firm owners that are too busy, so they’re shorts really clear what the problem is, and here’s a solution. So you get that every two weeks. You also get sent free tickets to in-person and live events, online events I’m speaking at. And then also if ever when the time is right or you feel like my process seems to work for you, then you can just reply to one of the emails, say hello, or just send me a message directly from my website, danwarburton.com. 

Casey:

Amazing. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. Do you have anything you want to part with Dan? 

Dan:

That’s everything. Thank you so much for having me on your show. And if you’re listening to this, you’re thinking, oh, well, it sounds all too good to be true. Well, I’ve now got a hundred percent success rate in the clients that I work with them achieving an ROI, they’re very happy with. And many of my clients actually double their profits whilst halving their workload in less than a year, 

Casey:

In less than a year than that’s an incredible, less than. I mean, that’s a big testament there. That’s amazing. And yeah, I mean, who doesn’t want to do that? It’s kind of the same conversations I have with a lot of attorney founders who built smaller firms or medium sized firms, but they get into that trap still where they at some point didn’t give it the intention it needs, or maybe they don’t know what to do. So taking the steps that you mentioned and the framework and the things that you were talking about would have a big impact on that bottom line. Probably the reason they got into it in the first place 

Dan:

Its because in the legal sector, there just isn’t management leadership training. It just doesn’t exist. I think it does for the bigger companies where they’ve learned this and really seen it, but for most it just doesn’t exist. So if you are a law firm owner and you start to invest in yourself to learn management leadership, you’ll very quickly end up ahead of your competition because it’s just not happening in law firms. So go for it. Fill your boots, as they say. 

Casey:

Awesome. I think we know the industry’s right for disruption, and it’ll be interesting to see what happens here. But thank you so much for sharing all your wonderful insights and appreciate it, and I’ll put a link to your website that you mentioned as well in the comments below. 

Dan:

Brilliant. Thanks so much. Cheers. 

Casey:

Thanks. Take care.